Coincidences: Another refinery fire in Venezuela

From Noticias24, click for whole collection.

I was traveling and missed the horror in Mexico, a fire that left 30 dead and 16 injured. It was inexcusable, and in serious need of independent investigation.

But my specialty is South America, and when I see this, I am reminded that every major refinery fire related to lightning that I’ve heard about in the last few years has been in a PDVSA facility. Recall these ones.

No, it’s not coincidence. There is at least as much lightning in Houston as anywhere in Venezuela. The difference between the many oil facilities elsewhere in the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico vs. Venezuela is that in Venezuela, work doesn’t go to the lowest bidder and then inspected. Instead, many contracts are given out based on who pays the best commissions to corrupt officials at PDVSA. There are people who know who had the contract to provide lightning protection to these facilities. What’s the company’s name?

37 thoughts on “Coincidences: Another refinery fire in Venezuela

  1. locojhon

    Interesting–as will be the investigation of the blaze, if there ever is one. Also interesting is the suggestion/claim of lightning being causal–not error, faulty design, workmanship/materials or other possible and perhaps more likely causes. Terrorism–like lightning–is often very difficult to prove post facto (especially after an artfully-crafted explosion) and with little to gain by admitting it on either side–those (criminally) doing it or those (negligently) ‘allowing’ it to happen. Lacking irrefutable proof (or not), it is far better for all to deny and/or blame it on divine intervention by dog, and be done with it.
    Setty suggests corruption is the issue and ultimately the underlying cause of the latest fire, but I remain unconvinced. For one, most petro contractors are international in scope, design and state-of-the-art practices–usually well-enforced by underwriters/insurers–and secondly I question that the corruption is perceptively greater and the workmanship markedly worse in Venezuela than in Mexico, and I doubt that I’m alone.
    A reading of Prof. Petras’ opinion about the previous refinery disaster– http://www.voltairenet.org/Venezuela-s-Oil-Refinery-Blaze –suggests he might not buy the lightning scenario either, and for a number of good reasons.
    Realists understand that the empire never sleeps, and has been ‘refining’ tactics continuously for over 60 years to destabilize/overthrow nations deemed to be uncooperative or adversarial to empire’s often corporate-led ambitions. (Remember Arbenz, or the many overthrown since?) In any event, according to those in charge of US policy, Venezuela fits the bill perfectly…and of course that’s ‘coincidental’ too…
    (Note to the ‘corrupted/divine interventionist’ conspiratorial bunch: realists understand and admit that corruption and lightning happen too.)
    Coincidentally…of course.
    locoto

  2. Kepler

    Jhon
    Corruption in Venezuela is absolutely worse than in Mexico.
    you probably don’t like to see that because Mexico doesn’t have a government with the label and flag colour you fancy and Venezuela…well, it’s your new Mugabe.

    I know people inside many state companies – some recently expropriated – and they tell me the same: maintenance standards have been abandoned, theft is more endemic than ever. The same goes for public hospitals, which require much more money now than prior to Chávez, but that run out of equipment faster than ever because staff from the very top to the bottom steal…

    Venezuela has been going down and down in the Corruption Indexes.

    Realists my foot. Empire? Which one do you mean? China or the USA? Please, answer to that. China? Or the USA? Or you don’t think China is an empire because it has still a red flag and claims to be a communist regime?
    Give me a break.

    I wonder if you even speak Spanish and have extensively travelled and lived in Venezuela to be able to open your mouth on this.

    1. locojhon

      Hiya Kepler,,,
      I have no doubts both Mexico and Venezuela are deeply corrupted–I have seen it myself, personally. I also understand how corruption indexes can be/are manipulated. (Usually such claims precede stronger destabilization efforts.) I simply suggested I found it unlikely that they were that much different from each other in that respect.

      Perhaps you are correct in suggesting that Venezuela is peopled by thieves. (Though it wasn’t my experience, I admit I don’t know for sure (and doubt you do either).)

      As far as empire is concerned, please compare the number of foreign bases China has (real or floating) with that of the USA, then with a straight face, tell me that China is an empire in any sense of the word. My take on it is that China decided some time ago that the way to best beat/destroy the empire was to beat it at its own game–in other words, to be better–no, make that more efficient–capitalists. It looks like it is winning now, too.
      Unfortunately, the planet loses in either case.
      locoto

      1. Kepler

        I am telling you from first source: public organism have been going down the drain in Venezuela. It was a very corrupt country before. It is much more so now. The ones in charge of those organisations are those blindly loyal and willing to protect the boliburguesía. That’s the only requirement. I am telling you: people working as technicians as professionals of all kind in those institutions are telling me security measures are being completely abandoned, corruption has increased. So: this is not just a gringo index. I have lots of relatives living everywhere in Venezuela.

        Setty discussed previously what is happening with contractors for PDVSA. Check out the post on the drilling platform. Something like that was never as bad as now.

        Another index you can’t fake so easily: murder rate, which also shows level of injustice and state of law, has more than TRIPLED sine Chávez came to power. And that murder rate is not produced by some gringo CIA agency and you can read the names of the murdered people, you can
        check out with the physicians at hospitals and mortuaries.

        About the Chinese: you don’t need to have military basis to have an empire. None at all. But yeah, when needed the Chinese send their military, like in Sudan. Otherwise their empire just rules in the same way as the US one.

        Industrial theft: do you think US Americans do that more than the Chinese? (and they do)
        Do you know how massive the Chinese government uses Chinese expats to do what is not technological transfer but actual technological theft?

        Whatever: you don’t have a clue about Venezuela.
        Go and keep reading conspiracy theories about the US. You have no idea about my country.

        1. locojhon

          Kepler,,,
          You might well know more about Venezuela than I–no dispute here whatsoever. OTOH, I probably know more about the US than you, and my claims are additionally supported by ample historical precedent.
          Regarding the increased murders, for a parallel look up Operation Gladio and consider that every minute of every day since, those methods have been refined, and recent estimates suggest at least 60 (to120 billion) dollars this year is spent on special forces/black ops to implement US strategy in as many as 120 countries around the world. No other nation is even close. Given Venezuela’s strategic geo-political and economic considerations with the US, to think that Venezuela is not near the top of the “Economic Hit Man” (look it up) or jackal’s hit ‘list’ is absurd in the extreme.
          You bring up industrial/medical/infrastructure theft. Of course, it happens all the time, not only Mexico and Venezuela, but everywhere there is a buck/peso to be made. Here in the US, when the price of copper rises, people steal it from everywhere–unoccupied (or now even occupied) houses–businesses–even power lines. Then again, there is monumental wall street theft-setting new limits, that is, if you really want to talk ‘theft’.
          This is only one way the US does spying/recruiting–by organized and targeted CIA and/or FBI recruitment here: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/19/the_handcuff_handicap?page=0,1 (Where they’re even fighting turf wars over the ‘goodies’.)
          Additionally, businesses and governments both do it for competitive advantage, the differences being that government interests are–especially in today’s computerized and internet-connected world–virtually unlimited. Google “Utah Data Center” for a look.
          Lastly, an answer from your previous post–My Spanish/Quechua/Aymara is admittedly (and ashamedly) poor/crappy as I only started to learn it later-on in life, but I manage to get by–increasingly better–with a little help from my friends.)
          Any other questions (or baseless assertions)?
          locoto

        2. NorskeDiv

          So Loco, in other words, you have no proof whatsoever. You are silly enough to mention operation Gladio, a form of which exists in every single country, and most especially Venezuela! Chavez openly arms Militias and others Chavez has openly declared will fight an insurgent war against a potential US invasion. Exactly the same goal as Gladio. The British trained stay behind operatives in England to fight a potential Nazi invasion. The extraordinary thing about Gladio was that the people entrusted to do such went well beyond their orders, and hence were rightly abandoned by NATO.

          Has Hugo Chavez abandoned a single militia leader? Has there been any independent investigation as to where the arms have gone? Of course, not, that would defeat the purpose of a stay behind operation, which necessarily has an element of secrecy to it. But history suggests it is far, far more likely that loose weapons are coming from within Chavez’s government. Gladio itself was perpetrated by the Italian government. In so far as Gladio is relevant at all, it suggests the problems of violence in Venezuela might be due to a bungled secret operation by Chavez’s own government!

          Covert destabilization efforts executed from the outside have typically have very limited success (as in the US destabilizing Venezuela by inserting foreign operatives). The US attempted extensively to incite problems in Tibet back in the 1960s, and met with basically no success whatsoever. Japan tried to incite African Americans and cause Chaos in the US during the second world war, also a laughable failure.

        3. NorskeDiv

          Also, LocoJohn, funny you mention China. You know who has a proven track record of inserting foreign operatives by encouraging them to enter into a given industry later (as the FP article enumerated)? China and Russia. I don’t know if you watch the news outside of Venezuela Analysis, but Russia recently was discovered to have attempted to insert multi-generation spy families into the US.

      2. NorskeDiv

        China has bases in Pakistan, North Korea and the South China sea. Sure, it isn’t much, but all “empires” have to start somewhere. The US didn’t get military bases all over the world over night either!

        1. locojhon

          ND,,,
          Perhaps Google search isn’t very comprehensive and not up to your level of intelligence, as I can’t find any references to Chinese bases anywhere not on Chinese soil, let alone in Pakistan or North Korea or any other place in the South China Sea not Chinese.
          Or perhaps I am incapable of searching???
          Would you mind sharing your sources for your claims with us?
          locoto

        2. NorskeDiv

          Obviously you are the one with the problem executing Google searches.

          http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/01/18/chinese-troops-deploying-in-north-korea/

          http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/comment_why-china-is-setting-up-military-bases-in-pok_1612612

          As to the South China sea being “Chinese,” Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan (ROC) would have something to argue there.

          Note: I’m not debating the correctness of any claims over the South China sea, merely pointing out that China is heavily militarizing an area which a number of countries claim parts of.

          Also, China may very well already have a naval presence in Sri Lanka, but the Chinese army and navy is much more opaque so it’s hard to know for sure.

          Just to be clear, I’m not condemning China for having a military or seeking to protect what it believes are it’s interests. Just pointing out the wrongheadedness of your argument.

  3. Jimbob

    Kepler is absolutely correct about the level of corruption in Venezuela, the failure to maintain infrastructure, and yes, refineries. The murder rate in Venezuela has indeed more than tripled under Chavez. There are constant electricity outages. Two bridged have collapsed in recent months. There is a serious housing shortage. There are food shortages. The national airline is refused landing in several foreign countries. Oil spills abound. This information does not come from the Empire, it comes from the Chavez government. Chavez would like nothing more than to link a refinery accident to the Empire. God knows he accused the Empire dozens of times of plotting his assassination. The only problem for Chavez is that in all the years he has ruled Venezuela, he has yet to link anything back to the Empire. Obama has been especially quiet about Venezuela so as not to fuel Chavez’s anti-imperial rhetoric. The last thing Obama wants to do is get caught sabotaging a Venezuelan refinery. Locojhon, your suggestion that the Empire is somehow committing acts of sabotage in Venezuela is completely unsupported by even a shred of evidence. If anyone has committed sabotage, it is from the Chavez government putting loyal but incompetent Chavistas in charge of PDVSA and other key offices, fostering an acceptance of corruption, and making themselves very rich men in the process. Hugo Chavez came to office as a man of little means. Today he is worth hundreds of millions. You tell me how he got so rich because I can’t figure it out. Chavez has done more than his share of foreign intervention. He provided funding and weapons to the FARC. He funneled money to influence elections in several LatAm countries. He is helping to keep the Syrian army rolling with diesel shipments. His foreign minister was caught trying to encourage a military coup in Paraguay.

    1. Jimbob

      For the record, I’m a Canadian who married a Venezuelan 34 years ago. I read the Venezuelan press regularly, I chat with in-laws there, and visit often. I live just across the border from the Empire and I know as much or more about America than my own country. I feel in a position to understand the workings of both the US and Venezuela.

    2. locojhon

      Hiya Jimbob,,
      We agree–corruption is rampant–I suggest not only south of the border, but north as well.
      I really won’t/can’t quibble very much with what you claim before/above this–“Hugo Chavez came to office as a man of little means. Today he is worth hundreds of millions.”
      I hadn’t read that before–citations please?
      Regarding the lack of ‘proof’ of various claimed US subversion, I leave you with the words of one of your probable heroes: “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”– Donald Rumsfeld.
      In addition, I would suggest inclusion of another category: things we couldn’t prove at the time, that later turned out to be true: including 140,000 secretly working on the Manhattan Project; the proven false-flag operation known as the Gulf of Tonkin (that the Canadians had the good sense to stay out of) and the fact that FDR knew in advance about the LIHOP attack on Pearl Harbor, among them, with the real story of 9-11 soon to be in the offing–be there no doubt.
      But that’s OK…we’re the “exceptional” empire–and as such, we get to write history as we choose…for the time being, at least…
      locoto

      1. Jimbob

        Good grief, you’re a conspiracy nut. You’re waiting for the truth of 9-11 to come out? LOL, it’s been out for a while now. Beware the illuminati!

      2. NorskeDiv

        There has never in all of history been a destabilization effort with success on the scale you are arguing. Over one hundred thousand murders in Venezuela due to US meddling, and multiple industrial disasters, all without any perpetrator, any solid lead back to the source you allege?

        On top of that, such efforts have been tried in the past, and we know them to be miserable failures. The US tried what you accuse it of in Tibet in 1960s, it was a miserable failure. Japan tried in America during WW2, same result. The Soviets often tried various things like that, also failures. Yet now Venezuela is suffering a destabilization effort larger than anything in history, and no one has been caught for it. Absurd.

        Comparing operations such as Gladio or the Manhatten project just demonstrates your lack of understanding. Both those projects were domestic, and involved recruiting willing participants, not swaying the opinions of millions of people through some sort of shadow campaign in a foreign country.

  4. Jimbob

    Is Chavez crazy/desperate enough to have had this fire set deliberately? Chavistas, including Eva Golinger, tried to seed talk of American sabotage as the cause of the Amuay explosion, however, that seed never germinated. A second refinery on fire could give Chavez an easier time of convincing Venezuelans that sabotage is taking place and the American backed opposition are to blame. It’s not looking good for Chavez in the upcoming election. He and many of his henchmen could face serious prison time. That is why I suggest a willingness to do something desperate.

    1. Jimbob

      Then again, the fire has already been blamed on lightning so perhaps Chavez is waiting a little bit longer to pull something desperate. He certainly has hinted to that effect, talking about civil war and how the opposition will never accept a loss.

  5. Kepler

    Is it worth answering to this old gringo who constructs his knowledge by randomly surfing over the Internet?

    I think this should make things clearer:
    http://caracaschronicles.com/2012/09/21/the-wrong-type-of-lightning/

    I am aware of what Gladio is supposed to have done.
    I very well know in what conditions grow the people who have killed or maimed or just robbed my people because most of them live not far away or in the same neighbourhoods and came from very similar conditions…even if they had different responses to life and to what the national government and society in general are doing.

    Please, better keep your eyes on the USA and try to understand it and see how you can do something to fix its issues.

    The level of neglect and sheer plundering in Venezuela is abysmal. We need no CIA operatives to destroy the country.

  6. The Cat

    I agree with Kepler and Jimbob here; crazyjohn is an idiot, and I believe that those who read this blog will agree. The terrible incident at Amuay will be blamed on iguanas, rabipela’os, cats, lightning…in short, ANYTHING but lack of maintenance. Hey, locoto – since you seem to totally hate the US, PLEASE, please, please, move to Venezuela. Pretty please with a cherry on top. I know that you will love life so much more there than here in the US.

      1. NorskeDiv

        I agree, I don’t think he is stupid in an ability sense. However seeking only information which confirms your biases is itself considered a form of “stupidity.” The same applies to people who default to the most unlikely conclusion simply because it confirms their bias (i.e. Oil refinery explosion: Sabotage instead of a simple lack of maintenance).

        He also seems to have no quibbles about questioning the intelligence of others, (see above).

  7. Caracas Canadian

    Please everyone…..do not feed a Chavista troll. Stop even trying to reply to the idiotic fantasies of this troll. hopefully in a few short weeks his beloved dictator will be gone along with his gang of criminals, drug traffickers and terrorist financiers and the hard work of rescuing and rebuilding a beautiful country can begin.Venezuela will need all of your help over the 20 to40 years it will need to rebuild from the madness of these lost 14 years.

    1. sapitosetty Post author

      Yeah you’re going to have a great time rebuilding a country while considering half the population to be “idiots” and “trolls” when they share their world view. You’re the one who is trolling now. Calm down.

      1. Kepler

        Set,
        Firstly: that bloke is NOT a Venezuelan. Secondly: even if the USA government has very obviously carried out very nasty and criminal actions in Spanish America throughout the decades, you must know Venezuela’s crumbling down by its own efforts. Only record levels of oil prices keep the military and pseudo socialists in power.
        When someone sees such things as Gladio as the source of Venezuela’s current malaise we can say with good reason that is preposterous. That is not based on bias against bias. One just has to have some basic understanding of accounting, one just has to take a look at the BCV reports, one just has to compare oil prices through the years, one just has to know people who have been working for more than 14 years in public hospitals and other public organisations.

  8. locojhon

    Thanks Setty, for your reasonably-written considerations and wait-and-see attitude, not to mention the bandwidth. I hope you are rewarded with some research work as a result, or at least more ‘eyeballs’. I enjoy/appreciate your on-line/blogging work and your insights regarding what happens in ‘your world’, the way you present it and this ‘forum’, too.
    .
    My response to detractors/denialists/incurious rabble: this little ‘dust-up’ originated when I suggested it might not be lightning that was wreaking havoc with Venezuela’s most-vital economic assets–that there might be other factors afoot, and suggested–given proven historical precedent/links–that I wasn’t alone in thinking so. I provided search suggestions and links for additional information as bases for those considerations. I never said sabotage happened, or that corruption/theft couldn’t have been causal, merely that given the nature of relations, other possibilities should be considered. In response, some have offered alternative possibilities that also should be considered while another offered links merely predicting what he claimed existed. A number of the responses could easily have been written by me not all that long ago–back a decade or so, when I was much less-informed and much more in denial than now. I ‘get it’, I think.

    I try hard to be as up-to-date and accurate as possible. I saw the last links below for the first time today. The assertions I have made are backed up by verifiable facts and credible opinions from a wide variety of sources that I dig into with an open mindset until a more-or-less basically-competent and logically-complete understanding of the topic is achieved. Or at least I try. That goes into the mix, and I slog onward–driven by an almost-insatiable addictive curiosity, one that led me to drop a ‘cookie-crumb’ (9-11) to see the (knee-jerk) reaction I thought it might provoke. That’s how I roll at times, and in an effort to provide some information relevant to this discussion, I offer the following:

    Re. current US/Venezuela policy (Patrick.Duddy= diplomatic Economic Hit Man) this: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/venezuela-archives-35/3871-former-us-ambassador-outlines-post-election-interventions-against-venezuela –if ‘the jackals’ fail to topple or kill Chavez, and http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html for a pretty good historical perspective of past/current policies/actions with good explanations after the chart. (Basic background stuff while few of us paid attention.)

    Re. 9-11 for the curious (in 5 mins): 9/11: A Conspiracy Theory – YouTube and for those with longer attention spans: The 9/11 Files 9/11: PBS lets the cat out of the bag and this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2144933190875239407 (Fabled Enemies) and additionally at AE911Truth.org you’ll find resources and a list of 1700 certified architects and engineers (and growing) not to mention the many millions of otherwise sane people who also support these understandings as well. And for those really (and I mean really) curious (and gutsy) and willing to journey even deeper into the rabbit hole: http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-911-files/911-follow-the-money.html (both) and to variously connect/reinforce the above, this to try to debunk: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1546121267852729018

    For the incurious, does it mean that your mind is made up without even a cursory examination of all of the facts? Or is it that deep-down-inside you are afraid we might just be right, or simply afraid—for any number of valid or other reasons—and as a result refuse to admit it—even to yourself? As suggested earlier—been there, done that.

    To those who suggest I should ‘love it or leave it’, let me ask: when one discovers his ship is off course and heading for the shoals, is the proper response to correct the course if possible, or to abandon ship? I’m merely trying to correct the course—not for any real love of Venezuela/Chavez, but mainly because I once took an oath 45 years ago to do so.

    In answer to those who think my knowledge/understandings/beliefs come from web surfing, they are in large part–especially since retirement–correct. In addition, I’m a vet (Nam-era ex-Navy E-5 w/high clearance), college grad, 20+ yr. business owner, husband for over 40 years, father of two grown/successful children, who has been cutting and welding steel off and on–sometimes for a living, others as a hobby–for over fifty years—and I come by my knowledge of temperatures and steel–in addition to my education and the internet–through my work in fixing wells and fabricating well tools. As a result, I can tell you this; millions of gallons of jet fuel could not have done what those jets are alleged to have done on 9-11.

    Lastly, the following videos are essentially: what I support as a legal prophylactic– http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32528.htm and: conclude with a guy who not only speaks for me, but for an increasing number of others as well: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28205.htm
    End of story. (My sincere apologies to those sickened by the above.)
    With Setty indulgently permitting, I await intelligent, accurate and factually cited comments and/or refutations.
    Hopefully we can all learn from this, as I have already.
    locoto

      1. locojhon

        Kepler,,,
        True core?
        Unlike some it seems, as a fact-based realist I’m pretty certain that the document was proven to be an evil hoax of some kind–one that wound up killing many innocent people for some diabolical purpose.
        Am I mistaken?
        And your purpose for asking?
        BTW, as long as we’re on the subject of questions, you forgot to answer mine from earlier: Your claim: ”Hugo Chavez came to office as a man of little means. Today he is worth hundreds of millions.”
        Me: “I hadn’t read that before–citations please?” (Yeah, it’s about those pesky things called ‘facts’–which actually happened/exist, as opposed to wishful thinking–that hasn’t yet–and perhaps won’t. Sure hope you have better luck than ND did, with his trying to fabricate an empire and Chinese bases somewhere in the world.)
        Take your time,,,i’ll wait……..
        locoto

        1. Kepler

          Claro, viejo, claro. ¿Cómo es eso de que “your claim”? ¿Estás hablando conmigo? No creo que sea conmigo porque yo no escribí eso. Aun así,
          aquí tienes una referencia:

          http://elpais.com/diario/2008/11/23/domingo/1227415953_850215.html

          Frankly: it’s pointless to try to discuss about Venezuela with a non-Venezuela who forms his view by frantically clicking his way through the Internet.

          Ahora explícame tú qué pruebas tienes de que la criminalidad en Venezuela es producto de la dichosa operación
          Gladio

    1. Jimbob

      Let’s be certain that we are still talking about the refinery fire and not taking a tangent into your 9-11 conspiracy world. On the matter of the fire, there is nothing to refute. PDVSA officials said it was lightning. I accept their statement. I question if lightning protection was adequate but nothing more. I would point out the error of your way regarding 9-11 but this is not the place and, if you are like most truthers, your belief (fervor) is unalterable.

      1. locojhon

        Jimbob–“On the matter of the fire, there is nothing to refute. PDVSA officials said it was lightning. I accept their statement.”
        Me–Congratulations Jimbob, on being such a trusting soul. Would you also accept GE’s declaration that they released no PCBs in the Hudson? Or the tobacco lobby’s assertions that tobacco was harmless? Or the claim that the Maine was attacked and sunk by Spain?
        Frankly, I am amazed you have such a high level of trust in PDVSA and/or the Venezuelan government, especially given your earlier assertions of their rampant cronyism and corruption. Or perhaps in your world, that now equals truthiness?
        Me? I’ll stick with logic and the facts, and then keep an open mind in the unlikely event I’ve been snookered. I remain agnostic about the fires.
        Unlike some, apparently…
        locoto

        1. Jimbob

          (Me, myself, and) I believe lightning was the cause of the fire. It just so happens PDVSA also believes it was caused by lightning. Trust has nothing to do with it and, frankly, your twisting my words is not appreciated nor is the overall insulting manner of your comment.

          BTW, if you want to know how wealthy Chavez is, just google “Hugo Chavez net worth”. A career military man turned president does not amass such wealth legitimately.

        2. locojhon

          Jimbob–“Hugo Chavez came to office as a man of little means. Today he is worth hundreds of millions. You tell me how he got so rich because I can’t figure it out,” and later email “BTW, if you want to know how wealthy Chavez is, just google “Hugo Chavez net worth”. A career military man turned president does not amass such wealth legitimately.”
          Me– Or maybe not at all, Jimbob, or mainly in your dreams, perhaps?
          Thanks for the “help” with the search. It happened to be one of the same searches I had made before I asked for your sources–simply because when I looked, I couldn’t find any ‘there’ there. Nor could I find anything else remotely credible listing Chavez’ net worth, using different engines and terms. Nada. Estimates were given on several near-identical sites–By whom? (One even claimed he had been president for 24 years–no kidding!) How did they arrive at that number? No one knows–no attributions are given anywhere–which is why I asked you, given your “authoritative” assertion. (Perhaps you didn’t realize I was asking for facts, not some guesstimated opinions? My bad–I’ll try to be more specific.)
          And wouldn’t ya know it? Most of the hits found were linked back to the same un-named/unknown source ‘estimate’, the earlier of which was then used as a source for the next generation of “reporting” and echo-chamber-like links. And you’d “take that ((mis)information/fluff/guess) to the bank”–claim it is factual/true? Really, Jimbob?
          Apparently so, as the initial quotes above were written by you.
          As far as: (Jimbob)–“Trust has nothing to do with it and, frankly, your twisting my words is not appreciated nor is the overall insulting manner of your comment,” is concerned, please show me how taking your direct quote, not out of context–is “twisting” your words.
          Please. Show. Me. How.
          Lastly (I hope): If by pointing out some of the various inconsistencies in your so-called ‘facts’, written words/opinions and/or logic has somehow insulted you, I apologize. My bad….(I had no idea you were so thin-skinned. Honest!) Let me make it up to you this way: How about you don’t write/make-up crap and peddle it as factual, and I won’t call you on it–ok?
          locoto

        3. Jimbob

          loco, I said I accept PDVSA’s explanation that lightning caused the fire. You twisted that to mean “a high level of trust in PDVSA” just to satisfy you argument, which is unforgivably pathetic. Trust has nothing to do with it. We agree on the cause of the fire so, logically, I accept their explanation of the cause. Do you need someone to sit down with you and explain the difference between agreement and trust?

          Your comments are entirely based on twisting other people’s words and denigrating them to lift yourself. Most of us come here to comment on the blog entry, not to push an ulterior agenda. I will no longer respond to your comments as you cannot be trusted to read them with any sincerity or ulterior agenda. Take it somewhere else.

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